Archive of Our Own ^beta

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I should be writing comments, but instead I'm over here - screaming

Why is Faux screaming:

Because now I'm seeing a huge influx of "Dick was a bad brother to Jason" and "Dick never cared about Jason, only about Bruce's approval" and "Dick didn't want to be a Big Brother and so was a Bad/Reluctant/Fails to be a Good Sibling" and I am more than a little confused on this frequently repeated take. Like I am seeing it everywhere and I'm just very confused. 

To set things up because This is not to say 

1) That I don't think Jason Todd (canonically or not) either doesn't or shouldn't or can't feel this way. He can feel whatever he likes [wild to say that about a fictional character], that's actually a huge part of Red Hood's voice and narrative arc. It's also a massive draw for fans of the character (myself included). In fact, a lot of the feelings in these fics are expressed by Jason in varying forms of canon (Mostly though, when he's not in "his own story" so to speak. Make of that what you will.) That said, Jason (canonically, I cannot over use this word) has gaps in his memories. Jason quite literally is an unreliable narrator of varying intensities. It's decidedly unfair and sort of strange to keep his POV as The Truth when writing from an omniscient narrator POV.  

2) Likewise, I'm not saying that Dick Grayson doesn't or wouldn't think similarly. He is canonically told by Bruce Wayne that Jason's death was his (Dick's) fault... and no one else ever contests or corrects that (Alfred. Barbara. I'm once again looking at you two).

You know what, hold on a moment, I need to dig into that. That one sentence doesn't do it justice.

It is more than Bruce just saying it's Dick's fault and Dick taking that as Fact.

Bruce intentionally did not inform Dick about Jason's death or funeral (making it the second in verse for family that Dick does not get to attend- more on that later). That sort of forethought (because Bruce DOES intentionally keep the truth from Dick and does not reach out to Dick at all once Dick arrives back on the planet post mission for a time span raining from weeks to months based on variation) from a man known for his deductive reasoning and multistep contingencies... really does make it seem as though Bruce is laying the blame squarely at Dick's feet long before Dick ever finds out and confronts Bruce.

Then Bruce once again bans Dick from the Manor (and Gotham City) after physically assaulting him (punching him hard enough to throw Dick to the ground).

This pattern of Bruce keeping Dick out of the loop as a punishment is repeated prior to this in cannon (namely, Jason's debut as a character) and several times later on (Big one? Spyral - where now Dick is kept in a coma until well after his own funeral and is thrown out of Gotham and not allowed to contact anyone but Bruce for the offense of being captured, tortured, and murdered. Yeesh. And that's not the only time it's been done either.) 

So, yes, Dick very much does and could blame himself for not doing/being enough. That also doesn't make it True. 

3) Why are we here then? What's the problem? 
The problem is when readers start to think or perpetuate either of those things. (Especially as off-hand factual statements.)

As readers, we get the full big picture of the inside and out of the relationships. We get mass context, reasoning, meta, and even our own intrinsic logic.

My "problem" with the recent increase in fics expressing (lamenting, even) that Dick wasn't there for Jason (and thus is still failing him entirely, despite Jason's actions and choices actively against the health and good interest of said family) is that the readers / authors ought to have more info than they're spreading. And when they fail to be able to step between perspective and general informative/background/stage setting writing... well, issues and misunderstandings tend to ensue.

Especially with newer fans and readers who often only have fanfic and fanon to go off of!
(Which is totally reasonable because canon is so messy and there's a lot of gate-keeping... but I do think that just makes writing by people who do know even more important. Otherwise, it may as well be Original Fiction if you don't know and don't bother to know the character's you're writing about. Yes, that one was levied directly at DC Comics.) 

It's one thing when something is firmly in Dick's POV... but when you step out of that narrow view and into a broader narrative voice, the perpetuation of Dick blaming himself (for -insert thing here-) and Jason feeling hurt by (-insert something Dick did or failed to do here-) starts to twist more than little.

Which, in this fandom, tends to lend to scarily unfair portrayals of characters.

Yes, I'm staring right at the "Dick threw Tim in Arkham" crew and the "Dick threw Tim out of the Manor and Made Damian Robin" people AND the "Dick made Jason room with the Joker in Arkham" crew. Those are all STILL popularized in fanon to this day and they have no basis in canon.

Now, it looks like we're seeing a lot of "Dick was horrible to Jason when Jason was Robin both in and out of the masks," and that again, ain't canon.
Hence why I'm venting. 

All that said, as usual, people can write what they like. Neither I nor others have to read it. But I've seen a lot of responses to comments and questions on the matter boil down to "I didn't know that," or "I'd only ever read in fics that," or simply "I didn't bother to read it, I can write what I like." Which, again, yeah, true - but if the problem is a lack of information or a perpetuation of misinformation, I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing it out without insulting the authors. That's a NON-NEGOTIABLE step.

There's two predominate "versions" of how Jason is introduced as a character. One is, frankly, far more horrifying than the other. 

{A fore note that this is going to focus on Jason and Dick's early relationship so I will be glossing over a lot of the nuance of Jason's origin and background. Happy to write another one focusing on just that / Jason / any Jason questions if asked.}

1) The Flying Todds | Acrobat "Clone" 

The one where he's basically a clone of Dick Grayson (and the situation with Bruce is also the abandoned original canon of "Dick left intentionally to grow as his own person and hero" and not the "Bruce was scared and threw Dick out because real men don't express vulnerable emotions" version that ensues in the canon/realities where Jason steals the bat mobile tires. They're mutually exclusive, sadly. ie: If Jason is from Crime Alley with Cathrine et all background leading to the Ethiopia Death, then Bruce ejected Dick from the Manor before Dick turned 17.) 

This version with the "Flying Todds" is strange, but also admittedly cute and involves a lot of Dick & Jason bonding, a willing passing on of the Robin mantel almost off the bat, and Dick very seriously considering adopting Jason even though Dick himself is clearly not even in his mid-20's (Bruce talks him out of it and adopts Jason himself). It also gives Jason a very similar physical background to Dick, which for me helped explain why he could be Robin so quickly. 

No one uses that origin anymore with good reasons based in characterization and innovation.

When people say that Dick voluntarily left to become Nightwing, this is the universe they're generally referring to. It's another great example of how confusing canon can be because YES it IS canon that Dick felt he'd outgrown the role of Robin and, coupled with his and Bruce's disagreements, Dick voluntarily left the mantel behind along with Gotham. 

However, it's NOT the most repeated canon and, as the storylines rolled forward, it's not the one that lines up with other character's timelines.
Namely, Jason's. 

2) The version most everyone knows | Jason jacks the Batmobile's tires

Unfortunately, this version had some more direct consequences regarding the beginning of Jason & Dick's relationship: namely, since Dick ISN'T involved with Jason's appearance/arrival... this is always a universe where Bruce evicted Dick Grayson from the Manor.

[In my heart of hearts I fondly think the unwritten universe where Jason was an acrobat child which results in Jason
a) completely avoiding the plot that killed him
b) building a new mantle [but keeping the bird theme vs the bat theme, partially to annoy Babs who was pretty overbearing in Jason's early runs and partially bc while he stays in Gotham he wants to keep the connection to his older brother] and finally,
c) arguing with Bruce and Dick about who's going to adopt that One Senseless Child With the Camera (Tim Drake)
... but that's not a world we have any trace of, so it stays peacefully sleeping.]

Which raises the issue that at this point in time, Dick was not adopted and Jason, by the time they meet, already was. Dick was, canonically, Bruce's "ward."

Why are we talking about Adoption here? and what was a "Ward" anyway?

This isn't a term that's used much today (or in the last three decades or so) so I'm going to briefly overlay what that meant for Bruce and Dick.

The best comparison for "ward" is the murky middle between fostering and adoption. It's also not really the same as modern day legal guardianships those those are still the most similar!

As far as I understand it (during the time this was both written and through to the versions perpetuated in the 80's despite updating laws about the matter)

The Guardian [Bruce] was given both legal and physical custody over the Ward [Dick]. (Note that we still see this splitting of duties in divorce proceedings today. Divorcing parents argue over "Legal Custody" vs "Physical Custody" - they're different things but a Guardian by default got both). A wardship is NOT an adoption and it is NOT much like the foster system we have today. The state lacked any control over the Ward once they were passed legally and physically into the Guardian's care and, likewise, provided no economic benefit to/for the Ward (not an issue for Bruce Wayne but would absolutely be a financial issue for anyone else trying to care for a child). The Ward does not take their Guardian's name, nor does the Ward have any legal right to anything the adult owns (ie: Wards don't inherit automatically like adopted children unless they're specifically named as beneficiaries in a will. Technically speaking, anything given to the ward could be taken back by the Guardian at any time. That's no longer the case (for Legal Wards, Foster children, and even technically adopted/birth children) but it was back then! Which is important to note because that's more or less exactly what Bruce did in canon. 

How exact?

Well, one of the variant meets between Jason and Dick involve them fighting over a bed.

Because, unbeknownst to Dick despite there being a GIANT MANOR, Alfred (and Bruce presumably) put Jason in Dick's old bedroom.
ie: All of the things Dick was forced to leave behind were converted/removed/given to Jason Todd, the adopted child.
How's that for a follow up encounter? 

(I will note that Jason was ALSO surprised and wasn't aware that this was the case. I'm hunting other panels but Dick essentially is treated more as a guest than family and it's clear Jason is incredibly foggy on what Dick and Bruce's relationship was. Jason, I think - please cite correct me if I'm wrong, - at first assumed they were actually full on former work-partners and nothing else. Which FITS the original take on Batman & Robin with Dick being less of a sidekick than his successors but man is it a weird way to "validate" that take...) 

{Was it really, Alfred? Really?}

Okay that's depressing great and all, but how DID Jason & Dick meet in the most common canon then? 
[A huge kudos to LananiA3O aka Majestic Angst Dragon for breaking down so much of canon! Go check them out!
***I will note that on A03 they write in the Arkham Verse canon predominately which is a little different from the canon defined below.]

Horribly.

Just, absolutely cursed meetings.

Once again there's two versions of Jason and Dick meeting if Jason is from Crime Alley and BOTH of them are, pardon my language, fucked up. 
I understand that these are comics, they're written for shock value and rarely touch grass (so to speak) but I cannot fathom doing this in a real world foster/adoption/sibling situation...

Dick meets Jason [Crime Alley background] Take 1: Dick is surprised, passes on Robin Mantel 

-TBC this is another one most people no longer use or know about. 

Dick meets Jason [Crime Alley Background] Take 2: Dick is ambushed, passes on Robin Mantel 

- This is the one most everyone knows about and is referred to as the "Gauntlet" meeting... 

- Dick has no idea there's a new Robin, much less a new Wayne

- Barbara knows. She's been tutoring Jason and running patrols with him as Batgirl. She's also intentionally kept this information from Dick for... reasons?

- Alfred knows. This is or should be obvious. Despite the fact that in most canons Alfred and Dick do talk, this apparently wasn't worth mention. 
(I have very real issues with canon Alfred.) 

- Bruce, very clearly, has not told Dick anything.

- Jason knew, including that Dick (as Nightwing) would be there that evening. He's an incredibly little shit just shy of Damian's level of self-grandure and talks a lot of shit to Dick about how Dick's been replaced and is the older model and never managed to measure up to what Bruce and Gotham needed in the first place. 

Honestly the only one who gets a pass here is Jason and that's because he's been set up to think DICK knows about this in advance as well. And why wouldn't he? The fact that Dick genuinely had no idea he'd been replaced isn't even an option. Those are his parent's colors. His mantel. In some canons (different ramble) Robin is his parent's name for him. 

It's pretty unfathomable for me to think that anyone who can sympathize or rationalize with what Jason did to Tim can't extend a fraction of that understanding towards Dick Grayson (who never laid a hand on Jason in anger). 

But, wait, why wasn't Dick in the Manor when this happened? Why did Dick "leave" / Why was Dick "fired" / Why did Bruce throw Dick out of the Manor vs just taking Robin?

1 & 2 are the same but with, you know, either no spice or spice. Dick had two major traumatic encounters with villains while as Robin.

The first is about when Dick was 11. Harvey "Two Face" Dent nearly beats him to death with a baseball bat (how's that for familiar?) - Bruce, in what becomes an obvious pattern, freaks out about the fact that he's enabling a child and placing them into dangerous situations and decides the only answer is to fully remove the child from the situation: This is Bruce's first ever attempt to "remove the Robin mantel / fire Robin" - between Dick and Alfred's arguments, the attempt fails. Dick eventually recovers and the story goes on.

(This is the moment referenced HERE where Alfred remarks that Dick very nearly had "a case of his own"... which by the by is a scene where Dick open and angrily yells that he hates the Jason Memorial, that it doesn't do any justice to Jason's memory, and that it speaks really ill of how Bruce viewed Robin on the whole.

Also HERE for Dick outright saying he doesn't approve which leads to Dick's later (seen with several characters but openly Stephanie and Tim) anti-teen-vigilantes stance. 

(Don't look at their eyes because this is supposed to be serious and you will laugh) 

The second (again, the parallels are just... interesting) sticks. A conflict with the Joker goes south. After being told off by Batman|Bruce that Dick is being too reckless leading up to and during the fight, the Joker gets the drop on Robin|Dick Grayson and shoots him through the shoulder and Batman|Bruce fears for the worst when Robin|Dick drops like a sack of bricks. [Batman (1940s) Issue #408]
(Now, I've seen this issue called "foreshadowing" and I disagree because that implies any sort of continuity or foresight (or hindsight) on DC's part. What it feels more like is yet another recycling of ideas into newer characters. But that's another rant/ramble.) 

Once again, Bruce's response to this trauma is, frankly, not great.

Except having realized he can't separate Dick from Robin, he elects to throw out the entire child.
(Noting that Alfred just... goes along with this. Canonically, Alfred in later issues [and retcons] sasses Dick about how he's never been fired.

Yikes.

See other post about Alfred and my personal fanon on how old the Robins might have been when they each worked out that they were just a different level of "help" to Alfred. Hint: Jason probably still hasn't worked it out.) 

So if Jason is from Crime alley, the above happens. There's no mixed canon that I know of (LET ME KNOW THOUGH), though both are (separately) canon.

How do you recover from all of THAT?

Honestly, in reality I don't think there's anyway to do so. But in canon we have Dick "Golden Standard" "Just Better Than You, I guess" Grayson to patch everything up and never make a fuss about it again. 

• Background on "Little Wing"
• and more on how Dick actually DID put the work in with Jason (because he was mad at Bruce and Alfred, not the kid) like, right away too.

So while their meeting was absolutely, horrendously cursed - Dick (as usual, it seems) acts as the bigger person and goes out of his way (literally) to train and just spend time with Jason. And despite Jason being something of a little shit in every iteration, he clearly grows on Dick and vice versa. Dick clearly adores Jason and (in all canons I can find) is devastated when he finds out that Jason has been murdered. 

[Dick, who is all about control - who in the early Titans canon even when brainwashed and manipulated doesn't turn violent on others, loses his shit and nearly throttles a 13 year old boy for keeping Jason's death from Dick for petty revenge/jealousy against Jason.

Likewise, Dick confronts Bruce directly as to why the hell Bruce didn't tell him about Jason dying - at all - and wow isn't that full circle?

Bruce didn't tell Dick about Jason, didn't tell Dick about Jason becoming Robin, and then didn't tell Dick that Jason had died. And, later, doesn't tell Dick that the Red Hood is Jason.] 

This is especially gutting with the revelation that Dick also wasn't present for his parent's funeral in these Crime Alley Jason universes because he was in the Juvenile Detention Center. So not only does Dick not get to go to his parent's (Mary and John's) funeral... he also doesn't get to go to Jason's. Bruce couldn't have hurt him more if he tried- oh, wait.]

And here's where things get REAL CONFUSING for me... because if we're fixating on past treatment, why don't we talk about what Jason did as Red Hood? 

We've gone through how they met (c u r s e d), how they [mostly Dick bc Jason was a child and one with trauma at that so, genuinely, it wasn't Jason's place to do anything but decide if he did want Dick to have a place in his life (which would require Jason to be some level of vulnerable and receptive - both words that make me squirm thinking about but are true none the less] recovered from Bruce (and Alfred and Babara's) bad choices.

But their interactions didn't END with Jason's childhood and death. 

[All my links are dead. A03 why won't you let me upload pdfs?]

Jason is murderously antagonistic towards Dick.

To put it in perspective a bit more, Jason's attempts at openly murdering Dick outnumber the combined attempts Jason has made on Bruce and Tim.

And it's not fights or shooting at him casually, I'm only counting the times Jason says on panel that he's here to kill Dick|Nightwing. Just... putting that out there. Jason's attempts on Dick's life also outnumber characters like Slade Wilson|Deathstroke, KGBeast, and the Joker.

So... you know... seeing Jason in Bludhaven (and even Gotham) cannot be a comforting sight for Dick. 

Dick & Jason vs Dick & the other (male) Robins

Now, I see a lot of Compare/Contrast about Dick's interactions with Jason vs Early Tim vs Damian... and here's what gets me; 

Dick was a mentor to Jason.

He taught Jason the basics (we see hand to hand, tumbling, acrobatics, balance training, stamina, endurance and even some infiltration) sure, but also how to sneak out, sneak in, break the rules without getting caught and covered for Jason when he thought Jason needed a break.

Dick visibly had a more "fun" role during his interactions with Jason. 

But Tim? Dick parented Tim.

He trained Tim in everything from combat to basic life skills (such as folding laundry, I kid you not). He went to Tim's parent teacher meetings for crying out loud (with Barbara, awkward.) 

Dick doesn't really act as Tim's brother, he stepped right into being Tim's designated Parental Unit the minute he realized he couldn't stop Tim from doing what Tim wanted (which, notably and again I'm looking for the panel a call back to Dick's Robin debut because Bruce couldn't stop Dick.)

Faux Chases a Rabbit for a second on the whole RR Tim vs Dick Split
This is a separate Ramble, but I think this is why the fall out of Dick's attention being split between Tim and Damian SHOULD HAVE BEEN so difficult.

Tim was used to being the Child (and there's levels to that, please don't take it as a slight to Tim!) and Dick was asking Tim to leap into a more adult/equal relationship than he had EVER before asked or requested in canon.

While we HAD seen Dick make comments in the past about Tim's competence this was the first time we see Dick in any capacity ask Tim to step into a new level of responsibility on a permanent basis.

It was sudden and it was under horrible conditions.

I think Tim's canonic responses (the start of the RR arc) make much more sense with that history in mind vs trying to frame Dick and Tim's relationship as simply "brotherly."   ie: Tim in RR perpetuated Jason's cycle instead of Dick's. Tim felt he was being replaced (as a son) and lashed out before leaving. It also... puts his drive to find Bruce (another paternal figure in Tim's life) in better focus narratively speaking. 

Likewise, Dick was absolutely more of a parent to Damian (and ooh boy has DC tried to walk that back ever since. ("You have no family." / "We both know you're the last of the Graysons.") Fucking ouch, DC.)

So comparing Dick with Tim and Dick with Damian to Dick's relationship to Jason is fundamentally unbalanced. He literally played a different role for Jason (because Bruce was, arguably for once, actually acting in loco parentis and as a Father ergo Dick didn't have to). 

Chapter Text

Free to a good home.

Respwan meets Nightwing

• Does Slade dump him on Nightwing like a mother cat with kittens?
  • Respawn is very Damian shaped. Odds are even that despite knowing the difference (maybe even w/out seeing him) that Dick’s reflexes still default to “oop, assassin baby” instead of “general unknown assailant.”
  • Also if he is sent by Slade was it actually serious? Because then it backfiring worse on him than the whole “Hire Dick Grayson to train Rose Wilson” is somehow even funnier to me than Slade just looking at his childrearing statistics and realizing Dick is the differential between his children surviving more than three years on their own and certain death. 
    • Dick as the somehow obvious choice for training based on his grand success with the Titans, the Teen Titans, Tim’s Teen Titans, the Robins, Batgirl, and misc others is just hilarious to me. He raises warriors, it’s just what he does apparently. 
  • Whether this is literal or Slade sending his never named “child” to go attempt to assassinate Dick Grayson doesn’t matter
• Does Nightwing crash Respawn’s latest attempt on Damian’s life?
  • And Respawn, clone hybrid of *Slade Wilson* and *Talia al Ghul* based on *Damian Wayne* just fixates.
  • Because all three of those characters sure dang have. He has zero chance of avoiding this seemingly genetic feature. 
  • Damian would freak out.
• Does anyone ever even find out? 
  • If Dick is still “estranged” (oof there’s a turn of phrase) post-Spyral it could be that no one knows until Respawn gets caught either unmasked in Dick’s home or playing as Nightwing’s shadow. 
  • Dick, on a video call for whatever reason:
    • Respawn, walks in the background in one of Dick’s hoodies, clocks the phone, and just either belly flops out of frame or throws himself out of the shot in a dramatic, meta-speed, streak. 
• Do I think this is a prime opportunity to mess with the DC Marvel rivalry and make Respawn’s first (vetoed) “name” something like Reed Richardson (Reed [to keep the R theme and match Rose] Richard’s Son [obvious but also a big middle finger to Slade and Damian and Talia in a variety of ways]? Yeah. I think that'd be hilarious.
• Respawn becomes Rook.
• Does Rose, who watched her dad abuse/neglect another child, use her unnamed brother's supposed death as an excuse for more senseless violence, discover the boy is alive and take him to Nightwing?
  • And then finds depressed and alone NW and is like, two birds, moves in and pats herself on the back as everything falls to chaos around them. 

For love of all, will someone (Steph) please tell Jason that Dick beat the Joker to death because the clown had the gall to say Jason’s name?
I just feel like Jason deserves to know he has a family member ready and willing to commit hands-on homicide at a name drop, okay?

I feel like that’d be real good for his mental health. Like if continuity existed in DC that might’ve been really healing when he reappeared in Gotham to become Red Hood. Just a little.

Update: We get a VERY similar scene in Gotham Wars when Dick finally puts Bruce on the ground... and Tim (again) has to stop Dick from beating a man to death for saying Jason's name after admitting to harming Jason Todd.

Oh Dick is the nice one, oh Dick doesn't kill people, Dickie has been here for hands on homicide for his loved ones since day one. He doesn't kill willy-nilly and believes in rehabilitation and redemption, it's probably why a good 33 - 60% of the DCU is still breathing, siddown already. 

Dick Grayson as the reincarnation of The Once and Future King: Arthur Pendragon

1. He has no idea.
2. He also doesn’t want to know.
3. No memory transfer here - its a full on reincarnation.
4. Dick dismissing Merlin [of your choice btw not necessarily the Neo BBC show that was carried by the delightful cast] as a stalker
5. Dick eventually accidentally getting help with said stalker only for the help be like wtf you didn’t say he was a magic user
6. Later: YOU DIDN’T SAY IT WAS FUCKING MERLIN
   1. Dick: Am I supposed to know who that is?
7. Bruce may or may not be Uther.

After the constant sexual harassment he experienced at Spyral, Dick gets a vasectomy. 
<small>because clearly it’s never going to stop. Men, women, it doesn’t seem to matter what he does or what he says - they don’t respect him. At least this way he can be sure there won’t be another “surprise” down the line. Also, Court of Owl factors as well?</small>
           Bonus: The only canonic DC character to get one finds out and confronts him. 
                       Folks, that’s Deathstroke the Terminator as of his 2016 comics. 
Whether this is softer Murder Uncle Slade Wilson or if Deathstroke puts some or all of it together and abuses Dick’s legitimate trauma as a weakness is up to you. Maybe both.

Inspired by BELLS OF ST CLEMONS 

• Detective Dick Grayson on duty (transfer? Loan? Etc.?) shoots the Joker
  • This is literally the only reason he can be a cop. I will not accept criticism
• There’s a solid period of time where the entire division decides to LIE for him, including Jim Gordon. 
  • Batman CANNOT GET a corroborating report 
  • Dick, being Dick, confesses and then the whole precinct pivots to “he was legally and lawfully allowed to do that” without blinking. 
• Follows all procedure
• Dick gets assigned a public defender 
• Ppl are like??? Bruce Wayne’s Son doesn’t get a private atty for this?
  • Does this lead to an “oh, shit, he’s not Adopted” too?
• Bruce Wayne either stays quiet or refuses to comment or denounces 
  • Or not but I think it’d be in character for Bruce to refuse to support Dick bc killing (w/ a gun, even)
• Which this is all fine and dandy bc honestly no court (even if this is in Bludhaven for whatever reason) will convict Dick for a full sentence bc IT WAS THE JOKER
• But consider: 
  • Harvey “Two Face” Dent hears 
  • And breaks out of Arkham 
  • And insists on “helping” plead Dick’s case
    
    • Does it matter if he knows Dick Grayson was Robin and is Nightwing? Is it canon if he knows or not? 
    • Like objectively it remains hilarious either way but I think it’s funnier/more tragic if we say he has since realized that the kid he nearly beat to death is also his “honorary” nephew. 
    • Is he helpful?
    • Is he terrifying to whoever got assigned Dick’s case?
    • Do they just not care?
    • Are they a bright eyed baby lawyer trying hard?
    • Are they old and jaded and tired
    • Are they old and jaded and tired but gawdamnit this kid killed the Joker they’re gonna get him to walk for THAT
    • Just generally “Uncle Harvey” breaking out of Arkham 
    • In the court house
    • Like. Sir. You’re uh, you’re now under arrest
      • Jason, who has also has shown up because of clown shaped reasons, probably laughs at that
      • They couldn’t possibly take him peacefully (or at all)
      • And they really couldn’t hold him
    • Dick or Jason has to make that argument
      • If it’s Dick he makes it TWICE bc Your Honor you… where would you even put them? Uncle Harv- sorry, Mr. Dent broke out of Arkham  to get here. You can’t hold them. 
    • Does Jason think he’s helping?
      • Like I doubt he’s there NOT to help (see: dead clown shaped reasons) but does Jason really think he’s helping
• And we know BRUCE isn't standing by in support but
  • Tim?
  • Selina?
  • Damian?

Jason Tries a Parent Trap - Crack Shipping Prompt

• Jason causes a kerfuffle by misunderstanding backstory, genuine hostility and discomfort. 
• Jason is shocked by the absolutely mutually petty animosity between Dick and Talia.
• Like, Jason canonically has a lot of respect for Talia and he was NOT ready (emotionally or otherwise) to watch her basically default to *hissing* at Dick. 
  • Jason probably also wasn’t prepared for Talia to be both racist and classist given she’s NEVER made anything of Jason’s own background.
  • So to hear her break out the ethnic slurs and go after Dick and Dick’s dead family’s blood and financial status (and the same in relation to Bruce - aka things that would have been said about Crime Alley rat Jason Todd now out of Talia’s mouth about Dick) *would be* a shock to him
  • And Damian is just nonplussed. This is standard. Keep up, Todd
    • (they don’t even slow down to do this. The opposite, actually. The pettier the two of them are being the more efficient they are to make up for it. Damian and Jason at one point are more or less jogging to keep up.) 
  • He really wasn’t ready for Dick to reciprocate whole heartedly. 
  • Just, Jason totally stunned as Talia cuts off Jason’s backquip/pot-shot at Dick to be PETTY AF and him turning to Damian like ???? 

• Dick and Talia arguing about Parenting Damian and again Jason is like ??? 
  • Like, damn, okay; he can see why people think DICK is Damian’s parent. *nasty bickering continues* 
    • …Actually, ARE they completely sure that’s not the case?
  • It does not help that Damain’s fighting style is the unholy hybrid of Dick and Talia’s and not even a little bit at all like Bruce’s.
    • (Yes this is because Damian is barely over 5’4 but it LOOKS very interesting) 
  • Jason is horrified to realize that HIS OWN style was also a mix of Dick and Talia’s for awhile and he’s putting that in a box. That’s getting examined NEVER. 
  • Because, sure, there’s the expected bit about ‘do you or do you not Murder Your Enemies’ (and wow does THAT get petty and also Talia goes for some really low blows with Bludhaven on several levels but also Dick comes around and knows far too much about the LOA for an outsider?) but then there’s also like… PTA level disagreements over certain grading standards, extra circulars, Damian’s dietary requirements, which teachers are clearly the most biased or bitchy and the horrifying realization that when the two manage to agree (and it becomes clear that they CAN agree for Damian’s sake) that Damian just gets run over roughshod. 
• Something about Jason has to be brought up (the Joker? Bruce?) and Talia and Dick say “He has to do it for himself,” at the same time in either different or identical tones and that’s it. Jason.exe has STOPPED WORKING. 
• Like, no, this is NOT a Talia/Dick possibility - but Jason’s a romantic at heart and he’s reading ENEMIES TO LOVERS (when its ENEMIES TO RELUCTANT/HOSTILE CO-PARENTS) with a side of his own bias that he’s never quite seen Dick act like this. (And as for Talia… anyone’s better than BRUCE, right???)
  • Jason, thinking that Talia is letting Dick talk to her like that totally not knowing that Talia has tried for over a decade now to remove Dick (of various levels of finality) and has failed every single time… 
  • To Jason, this is Dick actually having an edge. Dick actually acting like he has a spine and that temper Jason vaguely remembers from his pit-washed memories. So the ANGER to Jason equates to honesty (maybe) and power, definitely. That Talia “lets” Dick talk to her like this probably only reaffirms Jason’s thoughts about it. 
• I just want Jason to think that’s a viable pairing and watch if he can convince or confuse everyone else around him with it. 
• Ra’s having an opinion would be hilarious as it would be horrifying.
  • Jason also working out that Dick doesn't take ANY of Ra's shit and making that a point tally in his little mistake 
• Babs trying to have an opinion and getting BLASTED for sleeping with Bruce (and maybe even the abortion) would be hilariously karmic

Pokemon

[This is like. Sentiment and not team effectiveness. Also not perfect just idle thoughts! There's so many new ones that I probably need to relook at to make a final v but odds are I won't ever come back to this]

Jason Todd

Zubat Most of the bat clan members (-Alfred & Damian & Stephanie) catch Zubat with Bruce. Bruce himself has a Goldbat. 

[I don’t believe Bruce could emotionally connect to anyone enough for the evolution. Also he’s prolly still wary around bats despite everything, so.] 

Jason’s Zubat was not killed by the bomb because that sad adorable child locked the pokeball and threw it as hard as he could. The pokeball saved her life. Bruce planned to never let her out again and keep her in the case too. Alfred let her loose and Zubat flew away after dive-bombing Bruce repeatedly and getting chased out and beat up by Bruce’s Goldbat. She found Jason immediately when he climbed out of his grave, kept trying to get help (kept getting KO’d by Bruce’s Goldbat), was KO’d by Talia’s Pokemon, and then almost knocked Jason off a roof when he returned to start up as Red Hood. (She plows straight into his chest and her! Baby! Is! So! Grown!!!!) 

…Jason almost kills her several times in the first year as Red Hood due to the Pit Madness and Association with Bruce. (His now-Charizard saves her from him each time, even at the literal expense of his own hide.) Later, Jason can’t bring himself to use her in battle so she’s basically a permanent Zubat. She loves him very much though and when he’s able to take it he appreciates that SOMEONE always loves him. 

TLDR: Jason has a forever Zubat that loves him and he’ll shoot anyone that breathes at her funny even if he can’t look right at her some days.

Charizard This is Jason as a Pokemon. He was an abandoned little charmander runt which stuck out like a sore thumb for where he was but was pathetic enough no one REALLY questioned it. Then of course it grew massive and massively temperamental. Charizard is always looking for an excuse to pick a fight and blow something up. Jason's "starter" and go to. Initially had issue with Zubat but now they're eachother's favorites (since Jason can't look at Zubat). High Atk, Low Speed.

Bisharp Given as a Pawniard from Talia while Jason was with the LOA. Became his main pokemon while he was with them. Very cold tempered - unfeeling - uncaring... they DO in fact give a shit but they don't let on to it. Jason's other pokemon don't get on great with them. They pick on Bisharp behind the scenes to get a rise out of it and they usually do.

Cofagrigus This is a ghost pokemon that hauls its own coffin around. It's also a DESERT pokemon so we get bonus point LOA vibes. Not a ton of thought here. They found Jason as a Yamask either shortly after he was yeeted into the Lazarus Pit or after he clawed his way out of his own grave.

Absol Again, no thoughts head empty- reverse coloring of Jason's hair post pit and also a classic edgelord choice. I'd like to think you could have Absol arrive in Gotham AFTER Jason as fallen into a truce and it's a sign of him becoming less of an actual harbinger of doom and more of a MAKE PEOPLE AWARE OF THE PROBLEMS sign but... it's funnier to just go 'lol hair and edgelord'

Altaria BECAUSE IT’S A MAGIC THERAPY ANIMAL/BIRD/DRAGON AND THIS BITCH NEEDS IT. As a Swablu it sits on Jason’s head and helmet like a fluffy little hat as it hums to him. Jason gets the therapy soothing Pokemon. End of. (Nightwing one night yeets a pokeball at Jason’s head and this little baby swablu bursts out and flys right into Jason’s face to sing at him just in time to stop Dick from getting shot in the ass as he bolts away.)


Tim's Team 

Metang Eventual Metagross! This is just. This is also just the batboy (Tim) as a pokemon. Steel / Psychic - 4 brains - very strong! But takes a loooong time to grow up and very specific crippling weaknesses. 

Goldbat Tim is the next most likely to have a Crobat. He desperately wants one and desperately needs the connection. Gawd, Pokemon would be SO. GOOD. For Tim’s mental health — but we don’t see Tim being very good with or close to any animals or even PEOPLE in canon so… I’d like to think he has a Crobat but I’d say Goldbat for sure by current Red Robin era. Could be a huge later point of contention between Tim, Damian, and (not invited to the fight but dragged in anyway) Dick... 

Marowak Honestly chosen because Tim fits the whole tragically sad 'abandoned/neglected' vibes of the Cubone to a T but he's RR so he's the grown-up sad version now. Also they both use bo-staffs. 

Unown OR Golurk  

     Unown  

If Unown, then it's the R and it followed his parent's home from a Dig when Tim was a wee neglected baby. It finds Tim and decides that he’s it’s human now. They don't battle and generally just cause minor mischief for Tim. Absolutely helped him sneak around taking photos of the Bats pre his becoming Robin. *Amen for Teleport!*

      Golurk  

If Golurk then it was brought back intentionally by Tim's parents. But as with all things but especially their SON, Jack and Janet eventually grow bored with the Golurk (or even Golett) and abandon it before long to their study in it's pokeball etc. Tim rescues it and they're all the other has for quite a long time in that big and empty manor. 

Swellow TBCH Tim needs a bird pokemon to fit with Redbird (motorcycle/vehicle etc). Swellow works with both its impressive speed stat (and note in the pokedex) as well as its protective temperament. 

Damian's Team

The LOA is very big on ‘Pokemon are tools’. Damian gets a hell of a culture shock with Dick. Bruce is more in line with the ‘tools’ though he oscillates sort of wildly between spoiling them and being very demanding. Pretty much how he treats his kids so no one is shocked. 

Zubat Damian has a Zubat he caught with Dick and Dick’s Crobat (who Damian initially thinks is both weak and a sign of Dick’s personal weakness despite it being a 3rd evolution bc it’s a friendship evolution) bc Bruce REFUSED to allow Damian to have a Zubat. They catch Zubat either after Bruce's funeral BUT MORE LIKELY this occurs after Dick accepts Damian as Robin post moving into the Penthouse so it was a Special Trip to get them. That Zubat shoots to Crobat so fast post Goldbat Evolution everyone but Damian’s head is gonna spin. They will both be Very Proud of themselves. Tim will be hurt and pissed off about it.

Gliscor Stand in for Goliath who is a batdragon. Because those are thing now. Damian finds them and raises them from an Egg. Dick is Very Proud. 

Houndour Titus stand in. Gift from Bruce. Titus is very well trained but much like the dog in canon, doesn’t battle. Civilian ID pokemon. 

Eevee Eventually an Umbreon. Dick’s Sylveon rolls up with an eevee kit after tearing out of the penthouse one day. Dick thinks it’s a kit from one of his Titan’s respective eevee-lutions but he hasn’t confirmed it.

Eventual Honedge? Not sure, but they'd also fit Damian because he uses a katana AND ALSO the whole Aegislash 'king' thing.

Dick Grayson

Talonflame Dick’s starter Pokemon. Given to him by his parents. A little unusual to see as a Fletchling in Gotham later (since they’re native to Kalos/France) but not THAT rare esp in the upper elites who trade and travel all the time. Evolves into Fletchinder about a year after Dick is kicked out by Bruce. Evolves into Talonflame after Dick is used as a scape goat by the Titans. And, yes, Talonflame is SUCH an asshole to most of Dick’s ex-vigilante co-workers and LOATHES some in particular (including Barbara, Jason, Roy and Bruce). It’s a mean fucker and absolutely a reminder of Dick’s infamous temper. (Tim later ALSO gets put on the falcon’s shit list. It and Damian have an uneasy truce.) 

*NOTE That Talonflame is absolutely a Court of Owls reference (Talon, and Dick’s family history) and is heartbreaking that this is yet another part of Dick's family being drowned in blood and doubt...

Crobat Caught with Bruce in the BatCave before his fist ever patrol. Zubat was Robin’s Pokemon partner. There was absolutely tension between Fletchling and Zubat for almost a year. Though Fletchling trained with Zubat in the Cave, they were not allowed on patrol (well, eventually they bring themselves on patrol and burn through a few ropes at critical moments) for fear of revealing Dick’s civilian ID. Zubat thought Dick would abandon them when he was ‘fired’ but Dick refused to given them up despite Bruce’s order to leave them with Alfred along with his keys. Zubat evolved into Goldbat (after refusing to evolve a few times earlier that year) as they left the Manor. Goldbat evolves into Crobat at an undetermined point rn bc Affection & Friendship evolutions are completely Dick’s jam. (Maybe during the Judas Contract? Aka the Nightwing Debut? Or when Dick stands in as Batman for the first time when Tim is still Robin?)

Sylveon Because friendship/affection evolutions are absolutely in character. A gift from (Ma and Pa Kent?) ??? Also they look all cutesy and lame and then they make dragons piss themselves. And the shiny version is blue!

Spiritomb Dick finds the Keystone as Robin in the sewers below Gotham (near one of the Court of Owls entrances, naturally). He doesn’t think anything of it until it explodes into a Pokemon a few weeks into his undercover Spyral mission years later- thereby saving his life but also forcing him into a two sided battle (Spirtombs ARE NOT FRIENDLY! They don’t just join the party.) This Spiritomb is jovial on the surface and gleefully lethal below. They work very well together in combat but Dick is always, always, leery of the Ghost/Dark type when in a fight. He wants to think its just one of the mischievous ones, imprisoned for being a centuries old bother - but the hair along the back of his neck and the feeling in his gut tells him otherwise. Then he meets William Cobb and the worst case scenario is confirmed.

Lucario (A gift from Clark? One just FINDS him as they apparently do in the Pokeverse?) This would likely be just after Dick being kicked out by Bruce, but not too long before he becomes Nightwing. Then-Riolu becomes the most commonly seen member of Dick’s team for awhile though his then-Goldbat is taken by the press to mean that Robin had just spend his wings alongside his partner. Fletchling/Fletchinder bond quicker to Riolu than they did to Goldbat. Riolu evolves into Lucario around the time Nightwing goes Solo (away from the Titans) and it’s all very dramatic and They Match which is Adorable. Between the matchy-matchy and the Lucario's whole thing about Not Abiding Evil that's how they came to mind.

Doublade ....maybe. This is a MAYBE because while it fits in a 'choose your canon' its still a stretch. A ‘gift’ from Deathstroke during either the Renegade arc or the 2003 cartoon Apprentice arc (choose your canon trauma lol). Ngl, it's because I want Deathstroke's signature blade to be an Aegislash. Post arc, Dick does not (intentionally) take the steel/ghost sword on patrol or even train openly with them. Honedge evolves into Duoblade on a very normal day almost a year after the arc when Dick is still settling in as NW and is just running through the kata as practice as weekly bonding with ALL his Pokemon in his apartment. They just start glowing in his hand and then there’s two of them. Duoblade likes to wrap their cloth up Dick’s arms and shoulders. Duoblade is not supposed to be on patrol because it likes to EAT PEOPLE and NW does not use blades but they do anyway and hide in NW’s shadow. They do this when he's a civilian / as Dick as well though he doesn’t always know they’re there. Titans et all believe that the Pokemon stayed with Deathstroke. Rose and Joey also have their own Honedge. Joey does not use his. Rose does, and Dick and his Duoblade later train both Rose and her own ghost swords. 

Chapter Text

Basic Concept: DC Comics (DC) x Percy Jackson & the Olympians (PJO) Universe Crossover. DC Demigod Character lands in PJO Universe.

Crossover Type: DC Character "brought over to" PJO universe.

Which World is the Base World: Percy Jackson & the Olympians, all of that world's rules overwrite DC's (to an extent). 

Focus Characters:

• Percy Jackson (PJO)
• Zeus (PJO)
• Zeus (DC)
• Chiron (PJO)
• Camp Half Blood (PJO)
  • (Dealers Choice of who's there and when)
• Diana Prince (by Reference) 
• Richard "Dick" Grayson (DC)
  • This is the DC character I know best and think, see the below, would be hilarious but also impactful to use 
    
    
  • Other alternatives:
    • Barbara Gordon as a Daughter of Athena 
    • Diana Prince
      • Canon daughter of Zeus and one of the only DC characters to be regularly involved with the DC Greek pantheon 
      • That said, talk about over powered and over kill 
        • Balancing Dick Grayson on a power scale across fandoms is hard enough. You mostly have to take into account that he's relatively respectful of letting people make their own fates/choices... but damn, Diana Prince just breaks it. 
    • Cassandra "Cassie" Sandersmark 
      • A legacy/grandchild of Zeus - her father was a demigod son of Zeus, her mother a mortal archeologist.
        • So she's a 1/4 blood, not that it really works that way
    • Jason Todd as a Son of Hermes
      • Funny as hell.
      • Hades would be furious, Jason should not be breathing in either universe. Hermes would either be weirdly emotional (if after Luke: HE GETS A SON B A C K) or still weirdly distant (Hermes is a great cousin to Percy and a terribly distant father to his kids.) 
      • Jason and Percy are the same height (6'0") and both have the white streak in their hair 
        • I'm of the opinion that the Tiber didn't undo/reverse the damage done by holding up the sky 
      • But Jason is a New Jersey native and Percy is a NYC native. Their accents are very different and they have a low-key rivalry based solely on that. 
    • Any one of the Flashes as either children of Hermes/Mercury or blessed by Hermes/Mercury 
    • Donna Troy 
      • Who is, in some DC stories, a clone of Diana Prince - daughter of Zeus (DC).

TLDR of the Below 

• For purposes of this AU and fic concept: Dick is a demigod son of Zeus. I distinguish canon below from that premise fic-idea.
  
  
• Zeus has relations with (dealers choice how consensual) Mary or John Grayson 
  • Maybe the sex was consensual but the baby wasn’t…
  • If John, Zeus drops Dick off after the fact 
  • If Mary, John loves her and Dick regardless 
    • Yes, this plays heavily off the pre-existed biblical reference DC comics slapped on there with the American Names 
    • Yes, I prefer the idea that it was Zeus/John to keep the Court of Owls tie in (more below)
  • Either way, Dick most heavily resembles Zeus
    • Much as Percy is a near physical clone of Poisdon, Dick is a near clone of Zeus. 
      • Yes, I'm also saying Zeus is shorter than his brothers.
        
        
  • This is your reminder that John and Mary Grayson died YOUNG and so had Dick very young. 
• Dick, eventually, learns of his parentage - likely via Diana Prince (Wonder Woman) - and that it was likely non-consensual (they have no way of knowing and Zeus' reputation, well.) 
  • If Dick knows, he must learn this prior to his taking the Nightwing Mantle and, ideally, his 16th birthday - that's important
  • When before though is dealer's choice
• ALTERNATIVE AU BASIS: Dick does not know, has no idea, and doesn’t find out until he hits the PJO universe. Alter below concepts as needed for maximum hilarity or impact. 
• Dick disavows the greek pantheon, but specifically Zeus 
  • He's both disgusted and disappointed in them, comparing them to the criminals who he's fought since childhood 
    
    • This has... consequences. Dick is possibly the most cursed mortal alive. It hasn't stopped him. 
      • Aphrodite in particular has messed with Dick's life on several occasions 
    • Where they've failed to kill Dick, they've satiated themselves in killing those around him
      • (Dick has lost a lot of friends and family  - this just hand-waves some of DC's handwaving kills) 
    • Dick refuses to use any of the 'abilities' he sees as originating from Zeus
      • In the PJO verse, for example, demigods possess above average strength and resilience. 
      • I'd say that should carry over into the DC verse, albeit due to Dick's active resistance and multiple curses, its far lesser for him (think: average PJO demigod character vs mortal) then it would be for a DC demigod. 
        
        
• Dick is universally attractive in canon.
  • That's not even a joke or a stretch.
  • Age, gender, sexuality; it does not matter - everyone in the DC universe finds Dick Grayson attractive on some level (ranging from sexual attraction to being very open about thinking he's 'pretty' i.e. generally aesthetically pleasing to look at). We are talking big name heroes/villains to side characters to goons alike.
  • It gets mentioned constantly on panel. 
    
    
• Canon: Dick is one of the only male rape victims in modern media. Given Zeus' entire mythos, this makes for an interesting juxtaposition
  • He has been raped three times
    • Once, statutorily (he was 14)
    • Twice, relatively on panel with the actual words ON panel (Miriam Dialgo aka Mirage when he was around 17 - Dick was harassed for this rape by both by his rapist and all of his teammates and friends. This rape lead directly to his standing reputation for being "a slut" in the DC fandom and now universe.)
    • The third time was directly on panel (Catalina Flores | Tarantula. Pretty graphic - though the authoress, Devin Grayson, is well known for laughing in interviews about that particular plot, claiming she "never actually called it 'rape'.") 
  • He's been sexually assaulted (physically touched in a sexual way, such as kissing or groping) numerous times by foes and allies alike
  • He's been sexually harassed (verbal comments) even more often by both foes and allies alike 
    
    
• Canon: Dick chooses the name Nightwing for his new mantle around 16-17
  • Nightwing is a Kryptonian God, known for both "hunting evil in the dark" (destroying that Pantheon's greatest enemies) and for being the contingency plan to wipe out his own pantheon and then help re-create all of them, in case they ever fall. 
    
    
• Canon: Dick founds a new hero group, directly in the face of the JL, and names them The Titans 
  • Explain to me how that's not a massive middle finger when the Greek gods are DC canon 
    
    
• Dick's iconic weapons utilize (a huge amount of) electricity
  
  • Dealer's Choice: There either:
    • Is no power source in the escrima sticks
      • it's just Dick pouring his Thalia PJO based lightning summoning abilities in there for each use.
      • This is the only 'ability' that Dick makes use of and it's mostly so that it in turn doesn't overload and kill him (?). 
      • I feel like outright refusing inherited domains/power should have consequences 
    • Or there is (somehow, DC tech makes no sense) a power source in there
      • and Dick refuses to use any abilities at all period ever, even if he may or may not actually possess them
    • Personal Preference:
      • There is a power source. Dick is dedicated to his refusal of the Pantheon. 
        
        
  • He's also been shown to have proficiency in a huge variety of weapons ranging from sci-fi futuristic to quit literally Ancient Greek weapons. 
• Canon: Dick is known for leading Heroes  
  
  
• Canon: Dick is also known for training Heroes 
  • But is also known for having a strong stance against child heroes - though that's usually forgotten given he's trained several 
    • The roman legion system would make him furious.
    • Camp Half Blood is more likely to get the "I can't change this, so I'll do my best to prepare you" mentality Dick is better known for due to Tim Drake etc. 
  • IMO: Dick would punt PJO!Chiron for a tortilla chip, would find a way to suplex a centaur, because of how little Chiron prepares the Campers for the world.
    
    
• Dropping Dick into the PJO Universe at any point in time before House of Hades creates delightful chaos 

 General Notes:

There's a HUGE split in interaction and personality between the DC Comic Greek pantheon and the PJO Greek pantheon. 

DC Comic Greek Gods

In the DC universe, the Greek gods are very insular. Absolutely minimal interaction with the mortal world, with a majority of them having, to use the PJO term, "faded." The olympian pantheon is also "not interested" in pursuing further worship, content with the Amazons and a few other, scattered, minor groups of worship.

There are a few occasions where this has shifted. Ares took notable interest in the World Wars. Hephaestus (in)famously hired Deathstroke the Terminator (Slade Wilson) to kill Lapetus and forged the Godkilling Sword for the purpose. 

Relatedly, there are hardly any mortal children of the gods. Those that exist have for either longer than the modern concept of civilization OR have (often had) massively extended life spans. Generally, in the DC universe it's safe to assume that the only demigods are either well over 80 years old (and not looking it) OR are children of the gods and other immortals (sometimes their own kids. Often their own kids. The DC Greek gods are a lot more true to their original roots vs the PJO gods).

It's not out of the realm of possibility for the DC Greek gods to have children with mortals, it's just unusual.  

Dick Grayson as a (very, very spiteful) "Son of Zeus" Concept

The concept works, in my opinion, for a few reasons. 

Third Hero DC Ever Created

Dick Grayson debuted as "Robin" in 1940, making him the third oldest comic book character created by DC Comics. Bruce Wayne as Batman beats him out by a few months (also debuted in 1940) and Clark Kent as Superman is the oldest by two years (debuting in 1938). 

For further fun facts, Marvel debuted Captain America in 1941 and the Human Torch was actually their first ever - he appeared in 1939. 

Dick's been doing this a looooong time both in narrative and in in the real world's timeline. 

If you take his compressed age (not recommended, but go off) of 24? He's been an active vigilante for 15 years, 8 of which he was either Team Lead or a Solo Hero. (Non compressed age is 28 but that's very rare to see nowadays.) 

Like it or not, Zeus is known for fathering heroes (and heroines, but hero ought to be a gender neutral term by now). 

One of the Founders of Modern Heroism & Trainer of Modern Heroes

Dick is often credited for helping found the modern hero system. He was a primary member of the Justice League (as Robin) and later founded (and lead) the Titans, Outlaws, Titans Academy, and [*other morally grey academies and characters.]. 

Moreover, Bruce Wayne (Batman) has often credited Dick for his continued survival (both literal and moral). Without Robin, Batman would neither have survived his early years nor been the hero most know and love. This opinion has been backed up by multiple characters namely, Clark Kent (Superman) and Diana Prince (Wonderwoman) across multiple DC-Universes (meaning here both in-comic/in-narrative universe travel and across multiple sets of comics generally). 

This Entire Concept is Based in Spite

Yes! Spite! And no small amount of vitriol. 

Picture if you will, the young and immensely talented boy who grows up to play a major role in establishing modern heroes. He's praised for his skill, leadership, martial prowess and sense of justice.

That man hates you and everything you've built. 

He embodies the best of your domains, traits, and myths. And he loathes you to the point of erasing you from his life in every aspect except where he can spurn you. 

The DC gods maintain their power through worship and belief. When Dick founds a new hero group, to rival the Justice League, he names them The Titans.

In addition, one of the founding members of Dick's Titans is Donna Troy (Wonder Girl - Troia). Donna is later revealed to be a clone of Diana Prince, thus making her a demigod daughter of Zeus. Donna is also one prophesied to help bring about the end of the world (via having a son, because that plot line was written in the 80's by an ephebophile of an author).

Fun note! Dick and Donna are often referred to as "the wonder twins" and look very similar - here that'd be really tongue and cheek of them and I fully believe they'd do it just for that.

The two have never, to my knowledge, been shipped as a couple in canon despite that being rare as hens teeth. Donna has (and recently) been shipped even with Wally - so its saying something that Dick/Donna is not and has never been canon, even for so much as a kiss. Dick and Donna have one of the oldest, consistently genuine, male/female friendships in mass media. I'm actually sad to sully that platonic affection by actually making them, quasi, related in this little AU idea because you shouldn't need to be related in any sense to be JUST GOOD FRIENDS… but still. It plays well into the premise. 

How Does This (Zeus having a kid) Work?

Zeus is known to largely be heterosexual but he also has taken male lovers (notably: Ganymede, also handled poorly by Rick given its another blatant rape allegory) and the PJO universe as well as the DC universe have noted that the gods, all of them, can simply create life. 

So it really is a Dealers Choice on if Zeus went for John or Mary Grayson.

It doesn't need to be entirely non-consensual by the by if that's out of any comfort zones even as a concept. I would guess that Dick was likely unplanned either way though, in this AU. 

The Court of Owls being a part of Athena's lingering Cult and thereby also worshipping Zeus (her father and who she advises) to an extent would also be fascinating to tie in to the DC side of the world building. 

Are all of the Talons and Owls legacies? Is this something the Court has planned and devises and uses? It would be interesting if Anne Crowne (Dick’s great great grandmother) was a legacy of Athena. 

Is Dick specifically the Gray Son because he's a child of Zeus? Cobb initially stated that Dick, the planned and promised child, was to be "both Talon and Owl" and despite Cobb wanting Dick to work for the Court, he also wanted Dick to take control of it from within. Dick being a literal demigod feels very in line with both Cobb and the Court's "prophesied super assassin" vibes. But is slightly funny too if it turns out he’s actually of no relation at all to Cobb or John Grayson.

Heartbreaking take, John and Mary initially being OK with giving Dick over the court because he's not "their" child. Specifically training him, pushing him harder than they would a "normal" child, even, for that purpose via the remote schooling and martial arts referenced in a few comics (Robin Year One, for example) but then changing their minds (leading to their eventual murder) and reneging on the deal. 

How Does Dick Find Out?

I like the idea that Diana learns when the Justice League is assembled. They all get the shock of seeing a 9 to 12 year old bouncing around, openly criticizing the fearsome Batman (and watching him take the eerily on point comments under advisement, especially after shutting most of them (the older heroes) down repeatedly) and Diana Prince gets the double shock of clocking a new little brother. 

First, that's a literal child Second, oh - I'm related to that literal child and there's no way that's a good thing. Why would she have a "not good" on-sight reaction? Remember that this is Zeus; in the DC comics canon, Zeus attempts to rape Diana, his daughter, and when that fails does his best to kill her by dumping her into an impossible arena. Diana has extraordinarily good reason to expect the worst of Zeus (and she's not wrong!)

Does Bruce know?

Honestly, who knows. It wouldn't show up on a DNA test and it won't appear as a meta-gene.

On the one hand, Bruce is nosey and deeply unwell (mentally) specifically when it comes to Dick Grayson.

On the other, that didn't really set in until Dick reached his teen age years. If Dick learned this while still young and Diana told Dick in private, I'd lean towards Bruce not knowing.  

What Do You Even Want to Happen?

Anything. I am down for anything at all. There's so many directions you can take this. 

I think my favorite place to drop (literally) Dick into would be during Percy & Annabeth's fall into Tartarus. 

Everyone (Percy, Annabeth and Dick) is horrified and confused but they have an ungodly (ha) amount of time for the three of them to talk during that free-fall, bring Dick (a... clear sighted mortal? Percy can't help but feel like this guy is really familiar) up to speed. He seems to take the whole "gods and monsters are real" thing a little too well but, hey, they were all free falling to almost certain doom and he appeared out of nowhere. 

Why then? A few reasons.

It's a very convenient time to bring in an unknown character.
You only have Percy and Annabeth to contend with and they're more or less in shock and looking for anything that can help them. The transition POV is very smooth - Dick free falling into this world flows well "feeling" wise from his POV or narrative and Percy and Annabeth can see him as a shadow that then grows closer and starts to shout to be heard over the wind. The two teens are very nearly in shock and for good reason at this point so they're, admittedly, pretty vulnerable without the suspicion that would be present if they were to stumble over Dick in Tartarus proper.

The three of them then leaving the Doors of Death and escaping back to the world above is also an easy way to slot Dick neatly into the larger group of Demigods and plot. 

It also gives several solid scenes where people can note the age difference and aura. Dick would be 24-28 and is as fit as he is in his vigilante life.

Dick is ridiculously more experienced, skilled, and trained than the teenage demi-gods. It's clear that he's a natural leader and, more than that, they all feel more or less safe with him near by. The difference having a trusted adult makes to a group of traumatized (highly capable but still very scared) teens/kids is palpable. Dick, specifically, has a long running history of being the leader, rock and keystone of scared heroes from the time he was a preteen. 

(With Dick in the party, maybe more than Percy and Annabeth make it back out. Maybe Small Bob or the Drakon intact. I'd love to get Damsen and Bob out as well but I think those loses were actually critical, although never used again in the narrative, and in this case would hit Dick very hard as well, as he's got a lot of survivors guilt to start with. Also would showcase more similarities between Dick and Percy's personalities from similar different directions.)

The fight on the acropolis is also the perfect time to drop the "That's a son of Zeus" news on Dick and everyone else. 

It can be Dealer's Choice whether Dick knew already 

Tartarus is the deepest hell that exists in the PJO verse and the kids had no business being used there wtf Rick. 
I'm not saying Percy and Annabeth could not and did not handle it themselves. I am saying that they never should have had to - you know who should have closed the doors of death? Thanatos. The god of death, who had no job at this time while the doors were open, should have closed the doors. Too big for Thanatos? Okay, there's a whole minor pantheon of Cthonic gods who should have shown up to help in some way. Why and how it fell ALONE on the shoulders of two mortal teenagers is absurd. The Doors of Death in Tartarus should have been closed, or started to be closed after SoN, by the Cthonic Gods.) 

Additionally, as far as the narrative is concerned (as of WotG) nothing happens in Tartarus to change either Percy or Annabeth.
The PLOT has consequences, yes. They close the doors of death, they lose Bob, Damsen, and Small Bob. But neither Percy nor Annabeth themselves change in any way that shifts or alters the later story. In fact, Riordan goes out of his way to show the opposite. Percy does not begin controlling poisons, even when it would save his or other's lives. In the last of the Heroes of Olympus (HoO) Series we see Percy shy away from using most anything but salt water (fresh water being his concession and he's hesitant about it until put under immense pressure). Annabeth doesn't change at all, period. 

Showcases base-line Dick Grayson without making the others irrelevant.
This isn't Dick's world. And while he's been to several hells now (thanks, John) this isn't his world and he's got no way of knowing if the rules and myths he knows line up here. (Heck, there's a lot of academic debate about the myths to this day).

So Annabeth is still the reader's source of information/"truth" and they still need Percy for sheer survival. No one survives without Percy btw, Annabeth would have died on impact and here so would Dick. Dick has worked out how to stop a fall from truly insane heights, yes, but not one with NOTHING around, with no gear, and a terminal velocity that lasted nearly a full day) in order to survive full stop via the Rivers. What Dick can do is keep the kids calm, organized, and kick a whole lot of ass (barehanded and then armed with various things as he goes).

Reminder that Dick has killed mythological creatures, and just flat out killed, before - notably DC's gorgons and Medusa herself (who he beheaded reflexively with Donna Troy's shield). 

I would say that while Percy is figuring out Poisons and further controlling Underworld Rivers (the blood of Tartarus), Dick isn't going to be using any obvious demi-god "abilities" either way - he's either unaware he might have them (PJO world rules again, see Percy pre 12 years old and early quests) or refuses to use them flat out (see above). 

The end of the Misery scene can go differently now - Dick also wouldn't vote for torture or murder, but he wouldn't let the phrasing Annabeth use stand either. Dick has a very long history of training, saving, redeeming or just working with people with unfathomable powers - most of which are inherently dangerous and violent. He's very much a proponent of its what you choose to do with your abilities that matters rather than what the abilities themselves are. ("Some things aren't meant to be controlled!" ... just, what? No. Annabeth got lucky Percy didn't auto associate into "the Sea does not like to be restrained" in that scene after her comment about control.)  

The scene with Night too because, wow, was Nyx whomped with the idiot stick. That was insulting. 

(With Dick in the party, maybe more than Percy and Annabeth make it back out. Maybe Small Bob or the Drakon intact. I'd love to get Damsen and Bob out as well but I think those loses were actually critical, although never used again in the narrative, and in this case would hit Dick very hard as well, as he's got a lot of survivors guilt to start with. Also would showcase more similarities between Dick and Percy's personalities from similar different directions.)

The Fates (all three of them) out Dick's vigilante secrets faster than Eros outed Nico.
(Whichever Fate isn't talking is humming Bonnie Tyler's "Holding Out for a Hero" because I think I’m funny). 
Dealer's Choice: Dick can either also be shocked and in disbelief (Riiiiight, but he knows both his parents so. Also, this isn't his world. The Fates just said that.) or stubbornly quiet because RAGE. 

--- Other Misc. Scenes 

Dick playing Big Brother / Father figure to all of these lost and tragic kids? Yes.

Percy, dealing with PTSD and body image issues or fear of his own abilities or horror at the myths and how he's now related to actual monsters or monstrous acts. 

Frank, with his body dysmorphia (that sudden transformation, ugh) and consistent worries about Masculinity and what that means (running theme in the narrative! I thought we'd have a Frank & Percy heart to heart with some references to Gabe, Paul, Circe, Luke and Percy's own personal journey... but no). 

Nico, dealing with his sexuality and internalized homophobia and guilt over Bianca's death. His worry about his relationship with Hazel being a stand-in for the one he didn't get to have with Bianca. His former crush on Percy and his later worries about his relationship with Will. His worries about his place in the world that he has no real ties to, other than the people he cares for and their place in it. 

Clarisse, who's dealing with Chris' mental health struggles, her mourning of Selina and her survivors guilt over all of the deaths from the Battle of Manhattan. Clarisse who is canonically afraid of her father but wants his approval and love anyway. Who had to struggle to earn her place, fight to gain the respect of others, who is a smart-mouth, cocky, shit-talking 5'6" blonde girl who's ready to throw down at any moment. Sound familiar, DC fans? 

- Dick knows how to deal with that, Dick can relate to all of that. 

Dick throwing down against the gods? With either logic or hands? Yes, yes. 

Don't nerf Dick Grayson. He's angry. He's educated. He's a talker, an expert at mind games, and is only non-lethal by choice. Let him tear into Chiron for his failures as a teacher and protector. Tear a page from EPIC: THE MUSICAL's numbers and have an enraged and venting Dick '600 Strike' PJO!Ares. ("I'm not going to kill you," or "I can't kill you," is not a comforting phrase from an enraged Nightwing with access to an armory.)(Dick maybe working through some recent events? “Get up.” “You’re not dead, so get up.” “We fall when someone pushes us, we get up to push back. It’s not a LESSON.”)(A mix of thunderbringer abilities but mostly the Judgement domain in play. “Be a father.”)

Dick subtly filling some basic holes in Riordan's plot/writing? Go for it. 

Dick seeing Aphrodite as Kory (Starfire) is its own contained tragedy. (Dealer’s choice on Aphrodite’s reaction to Dick’s. Because given Mirage, he would have one even if he immediately tampted it down.)

The other who could first mistake Dick for Zeus are the nymphs. For obvious reasons. They’re also the first to notice any tells regarding Tarantula and Mirage. For obvious reasons. It’s a horrible situation for both parties, as Dick has done nothing wrong (even could relate to them) but he’s more or less wearing a too familiar face.

What's the Power Scale Even?

Dick has often shown superhuman speed, strength and recovery.

This one is warping canon facts to the AU but - Dick regularly squares off against opponents he has no business keeping up with, let alone consistently and constantly defeating (not after DC took away his utility belt, technology, gear, and most of his armor, at least.) He's also survived two headshots and has died four times (for less than five minutes each time) in canon among other previous bodily injuries that should have retired him  

I mean, Dick keeps up in combat with Deathstroke, Talon, (lowercase) talons, and various other magical opponents (such as werewolves, vampires, and mythological creatures) - often accelerating as the fight continues or gaining in strength as he continues to land hits. This is usually a meta-nerf of the opponents except in rare cases, usually Deathstroke, where it's instead supposed to highlight Dick's general skill/ability and the opponent is NOT actually nerfed. 

Considering that Dick is supposed to be in the same class as Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake, and Jason Todd as far as combat goes - this is to say that they heavily depend on knowledge and preparation for every fight they have. They're fore mostly ambush fighters with a dependency on gear. Dick doesn't have that anymore as of the last 8 years of comics writing and he's not slown down by it much if at all.  

USUALLY, I write these facts in to say its a "self-nerf". i.e. Dick is either pushing himself (stupidly) to prove he doesn't need any of it (and he often does not) OR Dick is pushing himself to stay non-lethal and that's getting harder and harder for him as the years go on. 

So in the DC arena... nothing changes. Dick refuses to use any thing that might be an "ability" and because of his "disrespect" the gods have either removed blessings or placed active curses upon him. (I.e. the hand-wavy excuse as to why Dick is not bullet proof and lacks superhuman strength when Diana and Donna have that and more)

In the PJO verse... the curses don't follow him. But the usually passive effects (bullet proof, super human strength) are also very scaled down based on the PJO verse base line rules. Dick being a son of Zeus, I'd lean towards him having an ability to summon electricity like Thalia (rather than Jason's ability to command wind spirits). I'd also argue that Dick, more like Percy, inherited other and non-visible domain abilities from Zeus; in this case, law, leadership|kingship, justice, and oaths. 

Why Are You So Tickled by This, Faux?

Because Dick's tragic history lines up stupidly well with him being an insanely rebellious son of Zeus. 

1. I cannot overs stress this; The Titans. It makes me guwaffa even this far down the page. 

2. He's gorgeous - that's a canon fact, I can't even laugh about it though because:

3. He's one of the only male rape victims in modern media. Three times over (once statutorily) and he's been harassed and assaulted by allies and foes alike more time than I can count. 

4. His love life is so cursed it's not even funny. It is just LEFT FIELD problems going way too hard. Too bizarre and nonsensical to work and yet, they happen and keep happening. 

5. He cannot stay dead (has died four times and counting, each time for less than five minutes) but has lost nearly every single one of his friends and loved ones at least once. A majority of whom have stayed dead. Which, based on the myths, is the most typical curse of the greek demigod heroes. 

6. He's a stubborn ass with longstanding issues surrounding authority. 

7. Dick, quite possibly the icon for young heroes in his dimension being dropped into the PJO world is just- angst, drama, catharsis, comedy? All there. 

Chapter Text

Jedi Bats

• The "Robin Mantle" is actually Dick's lightsaber... which Bruce took and keeps passing down to padawans. 
  
  
• Bruce took Dick's lightsaber and gave it Jason and then to Tim and etc.
  
  
• So the "Robin Mantle" equals Dick's lightsaber as well as the padwanship here. Which, given Robin was never intended to be a mantel much like a lightsaber is not intended to be passed down… fits
  
  
• Bruce is in a Dooku type situation where-in he inherited a planet to govern and a Title. Alfred is running things as Regent in his absence. 
  
  
• Bruce Repudiates Dick and throws him out of the order when Dick turned 16 after a bad encounter with the universe Joker equivalent 
  
  
• Bruce does not do this through proper channels. Dick "leaves" the order with no resources or second chance as should be afforded him. 
  • This... can go in a bunch of directions from Dick getting adopted into a Mandalorian clan and living his best life (Fanon and canon need to stop riding him), to Dick retroactively being made a Knight and having the base he sets up on maybe Corillia likewise legitimized by the High Council, or throw in a take where Dick meets disgraced and secretly long fallen bounty hunter/Sith Nasaade (formerly Wilson, but his Mandalorian wife took his name, both boys and the planet in their violent divorce) resulting in Dick training Rose etc etc. Have fun. 

• Bruce takes on Jason like, two months later. Not from the creche but via yoinking him out of the under levels of Coruscant. (Bruce this now looks like a Habit)
  • Which, good for Jason and yes it results in a sweep of the under city for unreported force sensitives
    • (baby Jason scoffs at this while being secretly hopeful - very baby Anakin "when are we going to free the slaves" sort of hope...)
      • Can you IMAGINE. 
      • Bruce, getting caught in the cafeteria with a ravenously hungry kid wearing Dick’s clothes: This is Jason, my new Padawan. 
      • The council, very aware they have not knighted Grayson: Your WHAT.

• Jason still dies at 15 when he runs off planet to meet with his birth mother who sells him (young force sensitives ALWAYS sell well so it's not all that different.)

• Jason Todd Falls, but doesn't become a Sith. (Just a Fallen/Dark force user. Also a Night Magic equiv test subject. I'd argue he can use one or two night magic style tricks, but they're limited. Jason doesn't see it that way tho of course. The horrible Gotham Knights trampoline soul bounce. Minor shadow walking - to explain how he stealth tanks.) 

• Jason does indeed return to Coruscant to take over the under city levels, attacks Tim in the lower levels of the Temple (because Jason's codes all still work, of course and the Xantos parallels are RIGHT THERE), and does his best to make Master Wayne Fall. He is no more successful than his DC counterpart.

• Talia has a hand in Jason's recovery, as per canon. Talia still thinks Bruce'll leave (the Order) for her. She's still wrong. Damian's backstory doesn't really change at all here so that's fun.

• Tim more or less forces his way into being Bruce's Padawan.

  • He figures out Jedi Master Wayne is self destructing and he forsakes his rich family to join the Order.

  • So no Tim wasn't in the creche.

  • He was a force sensitive who wasn't given up bc his parents wanted to use him as an eventual heir to take over their company etc and mind tricks would be a great tool to do that. Tim as in canon objects bc he's not close with his parents and like in canon was basically living through his obsession and para-social bond with Dick Grayson...

  • So Tim more or less hacks in to the Order and instates himself as Wayne's Padawan.

  • By the time anyone REASONABLE finds out, the 14 year old has been there for a few months and no one wants to send the force sensitive but clearly troubled kid BACK to his asshole parents.

  • Wayne skirts free of real consequences again.

  • Tim slots in like he’s never been anywhere else and is readily adopted into a group of padawans all conveniently his age

• Sabers
  • Bruce
    • Copper 
  • Dick
    • First lightsaber (a light staff) was taken by Bruce. A green blade dappled with shades of yellow.
    • Current (/second-whatever) lightsaber is dual crystal splittable staff that is mostly kept separated for dual wielding
    • Dark blue and gold 
  • Cass
    • Bright yellow, shorter than typical for her height, very dangerous blade. 
    • Cass' saber cannot be used in sparring matches because it causes burns even at the lowest setting. 
    • Cass rarely ever lights her saber, even for ranged-defense
    • Spoiler: She does't need to :)
  • Jason
    • Robin Saber, recovered by Bruce along with his corpse 
    • Red
    • Jason's new blade has an audible thrum when lit which reflects the fact that the blade has a very strong pull (i.e. the blade wants to move forward. It's hard to pull or direct blows with this blade). It has one gear, forward. This plays well with Djem So but makes using other styles incredibly difficult.
      • He bled a crystal gifted by Talia for just this purpose. It's a Proper Sith Crystal in that way. (ideally, the story would slowly track the color shifting as Jason heals himself from his own darkness and Talia’s manipulations... But canon doesn't do that either so idk what color would result of said in process healing.)
  • Tim
    • Robin Saber
      • Taken from him by Alfred just like in canon where he, also, had no right or reason to be doing this nonsense.
    • Makes his own while on his vision quest for Bruce
    • Light blue (think aquamarine) light staff 
  • Stephanie
    • Bright purple (duh) 
    • A little longer than expected for someone her height, which gives her surprising reach in her attacks
  • Damian 
    • The Robin lightsaber
      
      • Given to him by Alfred (just to highlight how ridiculous that was in canon)
    • Builds his own, with Dick, later on
    • Spring green.
      • (Damian thinks it looks like the Pit Equiv. Dick claims it's more like new growth green, spring green. The color comes from using the crystal of Dick's first, original, blade with the one Damian finds.)
• Styles
  • Djem So
    • Bruce
    • Jason
  • Ataru
    • Dick - Jar'kai specifically (he's likely the master of this style in verse)
    • Jason - Jason still busts out the Ataru he picked up from Dick and (much like Qui-Gon in canon) it never fails to throw off an opponent bc no one expects a brick house to move like that
      • Note that Liam Neeson (in real life haha) is four inches taller than Jason Todd
      • Jason is 6'0" at the tallest. Liam was 6'4" when he played Qui-on, meaning he'd be of height with Slade Wilson and Kori/Starfire and taller than Clark Kent. Scales.
  • Shii Cho
    • Cass's preferred form (she is the unequivocal master of this form in verse)
    • Tim, until his RR equivalent phase, some Ataru (Dick's training) and Makashi 
    • Damian initially, later Ataru (Dick's training) and Makashi 
  • Juyo/Vapaad
    • Cass' main form 
  • Niman
    • Dick's second form
  • Makashi
    • Ra's [not a bat but see below]
    • Tim 
      • Picked up from Ra's during his vision quest for Bruce. Tim is uncomfortable bc it fits him well and that's a struggle for him.
    • Damian 
      • Damian wants to use Djem So but he's not even 5'0 yet when he starts so it's still Shii Cho, Ataru (bc Dick is his teacher), and later he settles on Makashi as well. (Which I decided BEFORE realizing Ra's would also use a form of that style so even more mixed feelings for Tim and Damian, oof

Chapter Text

HOLDING PLACE

Panels from Grayson #5.

Helena collapses on the fourth day. Dick leaves her his weapons, supplies, and the shirt off his back

(Note: Midnighter is arguing that they eat the baby to survive.) 

Chapter Text

Draft space test

Chapter Text

Please do not get me wrong, there are parts of RR that I adore and am very sad the comics have just dropped from existence and memory… but ohmygosh was a lot of it UNNECESSARY. I couldn’t have said that with my chest ten years ago (2015) but now that Tim is firmly back to being Robin consistently and pretty much nothing he did or happened has been threaded forward (except for a few references here or there)? Narratively, it didn’t do a damn thing for Tim as a character except needlessly spit on his relationship with Dick and give the boy MORE familial anxiety. 

Tim also wasn’t the main factor in Bruce’s return. They didn’t even give him that!! The Global event of Blackest Night (a Green Lantern run) is fundamentally what shifted the JLA’s focus and its because Bruce wasn’t resurrected as an enemy. The line is “Maybe [Red Robin] was onto something…” but it wasn’t until then that anyone gave it any consideration. (…okay maybe that’s also because Tim wasn’t explaining and had gone radio silent. Still.)

Likewise… Bruce was making his way back through time on his own (somehow), he just was also going to (somehow) break time if he managed it. So a special team of time related heroes and anti’s that are assembled and called on by the JLA (by Dick as Batman with Tim supplying data that Tim brought to Dick to be checked against the data Dick had complied himself while looking into it from Gotham without any contact or prodding from Tim about it). 

ALL OF IT could have been done without like 60% of the drama.

Tim becoming Nightwing and having a crisis of consciousness about like, Dick’s faith in his abilities (“is Dick lying” is a miserable game to play no matter who you are or how well you know him) and his own “duty” or even “responsibility” to try and rescue Bruce — even when he can’t articulate HOW he knows that Bruce isn’t dead (a MAJOR and MAIN thematic of the RR arc is Tim doubting his own sanity about that! He was NOT certain, he was totally unsure and it lead him into trap after trap set by Ra’s who was exploiting that and Tim's isolation from Dick Grayson - with whom Ra’s doesn’t play games for good reason. It's because Dick fucking cheats every time because he gives zero fucks about Ra’s prizes or opinions. I wouldn’t play with him either tbh.) 

It really, really, could have focused more on a ‘coming of age’ growing pain and struggle which prioritized TIM'S NEEDS

Tim getting to lean on Nightwing’s independence from Batman and Dick would get to have moments of raw and revealed hypocrisy about wanting to keep Tim safe/near and FEELING like Bruce AGAIN, UNINTENTIONALLY, even as he’s struggled to step into the man’s mantle and life.

The contrast of how Dick is ‘raising’ Damian his way (one of the very few early and consistent things Dick did against Bruce’s habits or designs) to how he’s treating Tim — falling into he same traps and arguments he and Bruce had? Would be delicious! 

It isn't even a hard shift to make happen! This was part of the original draft! Like - LET DICK FINISH HIS DAMN SENTENCE in the bat cave about Tim being ready for a new mantle and being his equal and partner. Bring up the schematics — let Tim grapple with his thoughts on becoming Nightwing.

Is he honored? Thrilled? Worried? Feels like it’s fake?? It could be any of those, frankly, and of course the hurt regarding Robin can factor into all as an underlying emotion! That’s not erased but it can be eased and given light to the context that did exist in the comics. 

Have Tim experience some growing pains with NOT being Robin — the difference in responsibilities not only as a vigilante but as a civilian “adult” too! Dick genuinely leaning more on Tim because he can’t do that with 10 year old Damian (who Dick specifically says “can’t see [him - Dick] second guess [him]self” while he’s “not quite on solid ground yet” as Batman and in general). 

Further it, because Nightwing responds to more than just Bludhaven and Gotham and just as Dick has to step up for the JLA Tim would need to for the Titans; his own remaining and Dick’s. Including letting Dick’s titans interact with the still grieving Tim! Let the Titans comfort the younger generation like the family and supportive elders they are, gods damn you DC Comics!! 

And let Dick continue to lose his shit when Tim gets hit in the field. That’s repeated canon! Then CONTRAST IT against Morrison’s (odd but I can work with it) choice for how Dick is NON REACTIVE about Damian’s safety in the costumes!

Like… Damian thinks Dick loves Tim more because he shows demonstrative (and violent) concern!

Meanwhile, Tim thinks Dick doesn’t trust him as much as he trusts Damian!

Hone in on that with Tim noting all the changes and additions they made to Dick’s model of the Nightwing suit. Dick was out there with two (Lethal but still) sticks and the armor equiv of footie pajamas. That’s NOT what Tim gets as Nightwing and the angst there is ripe — you don’t believe me AND you don’t believe IN me! Dick having to chew his own tongue about armor and weapons and oh my gosh these are all things he ignored and railed against and here he is!!! SAYING IT TO TIM!! <3 

Steph and Tim get on screen closure and awkward conversations — you can even mirror the Babs/Dick split with the Steph/Tim split here! Not my flavor but it’s RIGHT THERE for the writing. 

And then — then we can get Tim’s haunting notions that he just KNOWS (but cannot explain) that Bruce is still alive.

However now it’s coupled with Tim SEEING how much being Batman is taking out of Dick and a little bit more data for him to consider when Dick says that he (Dick) can’t hope because if it turns out to be wrong, it would kill him. Tim still vehemently disagrees and doesn’t understand because Dick? Give up on Bruce?? What? That doesn’t change, but he can express some empathy AND still do what he does in canon.

Getting sneaky. Lying to and misleading (successful? Maybe, maybe not) Dick to gain space and time to do his research.

I’d say the first “leap” would be Tim going to Bludhaven (or, if in this take Bludhaven is a creator, then on more Titan’s business) — only Tim is actually going off and having the same cool adventures he did in RR……. But as Nightwing and with LESS strain with Dick and more comprehensive back up.  

Have sat down to reread most of these plots to try and shoe-horn Jason Todd back in there really made me mourn for what Tim went through - NEEDLESSLY - as a character on the whole. Like, Jason was just a wild version that we can all politely disregard but RR Tim seems to be taken as fundamental to the fandom but NOT to the comics. And RR Tim is GOING THROUGH IT. Like, mY BOY!! NO!

Okay, rant over. thanks/sorry to all who read